Category: Geeks r Us
For those who think DOS is dead, let me start with the wonderful DOS Fallacies link, which, by the way, was actually updated this year!
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html
After over a decade of searching, waiting and hoping, I'm about to get a DOS machine! I'm hoping it will be here by the end of next week. This is a Dell Inspiron a 7500PPI, with an 11.24gb hard disk, a Pentium III processor and 256mb of ram. It's got serial and parallel ports, a floppy drive, at least one (possibly more) pcmcia slot, a cd rom drive, and a 56k dialup modem. All in all, it sounds like a great machine for the project. It originally had Windows 98 on it, then XP, and is now back to 98. Long story there! Here's the short version. I have two friends, Caren and Lee. Caren has been using MS-DOS since 1988, and has never used Windows, though she does now use a Mac at work. Lee uses Windows and knows nothing about DOS, and the computer is his. We're all working together over the phone. At first, I wanted to install Enhanced DR-DOS. But we eventually decided to use Caldera's DR-DOS and to install the enhancements later. Oh boy what a mess! First, Lee couldn't access ftps. I have no clue why. We tried, several times, playing with GMail, but it won't allow users to send .exe files! They apparently figured it out, and she sent him the file through her Shellworld. I wasn't on the phone at that point. He downloaded the file, and burned it to a disk, but it wasn't bootable. Lee told us that the cd rom drive was the removable kind, so we couldn't change the bios to boot from the cd. Then, Caren discovered that the XP version of DOS is missing certain commands. So Lee reinstalled Windows 98 on the Dell to get to actual DOS. That's where we are now. Both of my friends have obligations over the next two days.
In the meantime, I'm looking into this unofficial version of MS-DOs, called 7.10. Two of my main reasons for using DR-DOS were FAT-32 support and the ability to truly multitask. But this version of MS-DOS has native support for FAT-32, meaning that I don't need to make a double or tripple partition of the hard disk, since FAT-16 can only handle volumes up to 4gb. While EDRD has the support, DR-DOS 7.03 does not, so we would need to use a driver. As far as I know, MS-DOS cannot multitask. It can use a task manager, which suspends programs, so that you can use them one at a time, but you can't use two at once. Still, Caren has this MS-DOS 7.10, and if we continue with DR-DOS, we may have to buy it, since it looks like some files are missing. That said, it does have good memory management, which only improves with the enhancements. DR-DOS was designed as a standalone program. This version of MS-DOS was designed to have Windows 95-8 ontop of it, but was then extracted and added to in order to become a standalone version of DOS. Still, this is what she uses on a daily basis and she hasn't reported any problems with it. I would just hate to sacrifice multitasking! On the other hand, it is MS-DOS, so is obviously 100% MS-DOS compatible, meaning that I won't have any problems running programs. Unlike DR-DOS, it doesn't have built-in support for dialup, but there are drivers for that, and I can either get an account with Shellworld, which is supposed to be an amazing adventure in itself, or my wireless connection from Verizon. I have a ppp account from toast.net so can play with that as well.
I was told that most of the "modern" things that I want to do have to do with the computer I'm using and the programs themselves, and not necessarily with DOS. So that does sort of make it a bit easier. Even my fears about an out-of-date screenreader not working with a newly made piece of software proved to be groundless, at least, according to Caren. Surfing the net, playing mp3s, watching videos, using GMail, using a wireless connection, backing up to and reading from my compact flash card, even reading those horrible pdfs and using usb all proved possible! Now I'm just trying to decide which version of the operating system to install! I have a lot of catching up on commands, including the new ones, to do. Then, it's off to batch programming and QuickBASIC 4.5! I'd also like to play around with various types of floppy disks, just for fun.
I am so excited and nervous right now! This is the second time that I've gotten my hopes up about this. The first time, things never even got and now, I'm so close that I could almost feel the machine in my hands! And now, I need it more than ever, since neither of my Keynote Golds is working!
Wow! I just did a search for the Superdisks (LS 120 and LS 240) on Ebay and they are so incredibly expensive! I didn't even bother looking for drives. But the zip disks, which can hold 100mb, 250mb, and even 750mb are cheap! Why? I'm guessing more of those were produced? Anyway, the Dell has a zip drive, and I want to experiment with it. I've heard good and bad things about these, so will be doing my serious saving on regular floppies, and more likely, on my trusty 4gb Kingston flash cards. But these will be a fun little toy if I can get them working. I actually just found my spare pcmcia adapter for my cards, so that's good. Now if only I could find my extra two cards! lol Ah well, At least I have the one here.
So post when this all works. Smile. I keep asking, but....
We should be working on the install tomorrow. Not only do I intend on posting when I have it up and running, but once I learn my way around Lynx, Nettamer etc. I plan on posting here with said machine!
Coolness!
You should have just paid me to build it for you; could have got it done in a few months; I think so far we're looking at around 4 years?
I think you asked $400 or $600 for it. I don't remember, so could be wrong. But I don't have that kind of money. In any case, the machine is fine. I just need to decide which version of DOS I want on it. Still, if this really works out, and I want a desktop, I will keep you in mind.
Just a thought. Have you considered linux? I'm not talking about using a lame halfway accessible desktop like gnome or anything, but good old command line linux? You could install a command line only distro that would give you all the functionality of dos plus way more. YOu could get a netbook with way better stats than a pentium 3 and 256 megs of ram for under 200 dollars. If you're really hot for dos, you could even install freedos on it and run all the stuff you want in a virtual dos box. You could even set up a init file to start dos when the computer starts so you wouldn't have to use bash very much. The linux default speakup screen reader uses espeak, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I don't know if you're trying to work with this old machine for nostalgia's sake or what, but if you're willing to still be using dos stuff in this day and age, learning the ins and outs of bash should be a sinch. Anyway, best of luck.
You really should read that DOS Fallacies page. I think you'll find it quite interesting. It was actually just updated this year, so is fully up-to-date. Practically everything you can do with Linux, you can do with DOS. Certainly, I could use a faster machine with better memory and drive capacity, but since DOS is already a very fast operating system, and since most programs are quite small, I really shouldn't need anything more than this. Basically, I would like to see if I can switch to DOS for most tasks.
I really have no interest in learning linux. It's a completely different os, and honestly, even reading about it on Wikipedia confused me. No drive letters? What on Earth? I know the Mac is based on Unix, and the constant interacting with Voiceover drives me crazy! That said, I don't mind ESpeak. I use it all the time, in NVDA, and always have it set to Greek.
hmmm. I read the dos fallacies page. I still think I'll stick with linux. I use windows for my primary machine, but I have an old linux box kicking around that I am using to learn linux. It can definitely seem confusing at first, but it really is pretty amazing how much linux can do.
Thanks for at least reading that page. Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion and must use whatever works for you. But I'm glad that you're at least informed now of another possible option, should someone ever ask you. We're installing on Monday, and working with DR-DOS. I'm eager to test its' multitasker with a screenreader.
Even his built machine he said would not work as you wish, but would be fun to play with. This is why I'm interested if you actually get it going.
what screen reader do you use with dos? I know very little about modern dos, and it would be interesting at least to know about. Do you use old school jaws for dos? Vocaleyes?
I have to say you're an idiot. you're running on a 256 mb ram system. Try running a nice stable secure web server with a lemp stack on dos. Then tell me you can do everything on Linux you can on dos.
lmao.
This lady is only interested in Dos for it's sake. She doesn't care about the other.
DOS was installed on the machine last week. Now they're just working on adding a few extras, like internet browsers (I've asked for Lynx, ELynx, and Nettamer), screenreaders (VocalEyes as my main one, but experimenting with ASAP as well),, wordprocessors (WordPerfect 5.1 and/or 6+ for rtf support), and a cd rom driver. Then, they'll be checking the built-in modem and seeing about a compact flash card reader for the pcmcia slot. The way the machine is configured, there are several partitions of the 11.24gb drive. DOS itself is in a FAT-16 one, but the rest are FAT-32. That way, I can have one to play with and another which is stable. They're also making me a bootable DOS disk with ASAP on it, so that I can fix my machine should something go wrong. All in all, I'm excited and can't wait!
I know nothing of web servers or lemp stacks. But I do know that you can write your own websites with DOS programs. Shellworld also has a few interesting extras built-in, but I don't have an account there, so am not sure if website hosting is among them.
Last night, I found this! I don't know how I missed it in the past, but it will certainly help me now. It's a page with in depth reviews of all the major DOS screenreaders, and from 1995 too, so most are either the last or next to last versions made. And of course, it's written as a document should be, in text, not pdf!
ftp://trace.wisc.edu/pub/TEXT/ORGS/NFB/REVIEWS.TXT
Now I really want to try ASAP! I like how it's really automatic, leaving me free to learn the os and programs, rather than having to learn tons of commands for a screenreader. I also like the Port Speak program that can be used to find the com port of the synthesizer, during installation. Once that is done, you could actually install the program with speech! I know because I tried it once and it was really neat! Thankfully, I've already asked for it to be loaded onto the machine.
Flipper sounds interesting as well, but it seems that I can't use it when I multitask. Still, I might try it one of these days, just for the sake of experience.
I've been curious about JAWS for quite awhile now, having used its' windows version from 3.3 to about 4.5, and very occasionally 8 and I think 12. I found the discussion on display screens to be interesting. I didn't even think of things such as boarders, colours, and software cursors in DOS. It sounds like JAWS will be well-equipped to handle some of the more modern programs, should I become adventurous. But I really have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to settings for background and foreground, monochrome enhancements, colours, etc. I certainly know what macros are, from using the Braille Lite 2000, and I like them. Since I'll be learning batch programming, in general, I suppose that I'll be using them all the time one way or another.
I actually have Mastertouch, including the software, cassette manuals and touch tablet! But I have no idea if the tablet is calibrated and don't think I have the special wire needed to connect it to the Keynote. In any case, I have the Voicecard, not the PC. Still, it's strange, reading about what essentially amounts to a touch screen, that was written for DOS, before iOS was a blink in Apple's eye. But I don't think I would mind using this, since the tablet does not take the place of the keyboard, except when it comes to reading lines. I like that I can instantly jump from one line to another, something I can't do on any os that I've ever used. I wonder what the writer of that review thinks of the modern touchscreen systems?
I originally found this page while looking for information on the Speaqualizer. So naturally, I was very interested in that review. Truly, it sounds like an incredible system! I once had the luck to find one on Ebay, but didn't get it. Mostly, this was because I don't have a computer with a full-length expantion slot. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure what that is. Do they mean isa, pci, scsi, or what? Perhaps, I have one on my XP desktop, but if that's true, I would either need to dual boot into DOS or create a virtual machine in order to use this reader. Still, considering that this can read things like the bios and other information that comes up before the os is even loaded, it's a shame that they couldn't find a way of making one which uses, say, a pcmcia slot or a parallel or serial port, and which could save at least some settings to the machine once it starts up.
I must say, I was very impressed at the price for Tinytalk Personal. At only $75, it's the cheapest screenreader I've ever heard of, next to NVDA, which is free, and which, of course, came out long after Tinytalk Personal stopped being made. I was really disappointed when I read about the disadvantages of the Sound Blaster card. I didn't know if it could be used in a laptop, but the idea of using a software speech synthesizer with DOS intrigued and excited me. From what I've read here, it's not worth it. Still, I do have to wonder if something like ESpeak could be used with a DOS screenreader. Apparently, there was a version of Tinytalk which actually used the pc speaker as a synthesizer. It was so bad that it was only for demonstration purposes, but it does make me wonder if a software synthesizer could be developed for DOS if ESpeak doesn't work.
VocalEyes is the only DOS screenreader that I've ever used extensively. Unfortunately, they reviewed version 2.2 here and not 3.0. But I still learned a few new things, the most important of which is that I can unload VocalEyes from memory! This is also a feature of ASAP, meaning that I can now try them both without having to edit my autoexec.bat file or having to reboot the machine. They also mentioned an automatic reading key, but neglected to explain the combination. This will really come in handy, so I would like to learn it. I think I would like to play with set files as well, so that I can do some customisation of the way the program reads in individual applications. I've used it with my Keynote Gold Voicecard, but on a Humanware laptop. So I'm not sure if I can select it from the menu and use it without drivers or use it with the generic driver. I'm actually hoping it's not damaged, since both of my laptops are giving me a beep at start-up and not booting into DOS. They just sit there, whether or not the card is inserted.
I notice that many of these readers also have general screen monitoring, to let you know when certain characters or attributes change. I've never needed to do this, but wonder if it would enhanse my experience. If I ever find or create a program to tell me how much battery charge I have left, and to warn me when the battery is running low, I may need to monitor the screen for that window. Perhaps, it can be used for a clock or reminder program as well, since I intend on using those. What are extended ASCII characters, extended graphical characters, alternative cursors (not meaning things like the JAWS and system cursor), highlight bars, lightbars, and video attributes? Most of these were mentioned continuously throughout the reviews.
While I didn't really read the section on the graphical user interface, I skimmed it and some of it looked interesting, particularly from the modern perspective. Even if you're not into DOS, you may find this last section on Windows interesting, from a historical standpoint.